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Trading VS. Investing

Posted by Satuki On November - 13 - 2008

 

Let’s first take a look at each style. Investing means that you pore over a company’s financial statements, management, product lines, operational costs, barriers of entry, profit margin etc.. In other words, you look at a company’s fundamentals. If you think the market value of a company’s stock is below its intrinsic value, you buy it. Trading is on the other end of the spectrum.. Entry and exit of a position is made based on thorough technical analysis of a stock. Which one is better?

 

Most of financial articles and college econ. classes teach people how to be an investor at an early age. They will throw tons of econ. theories at you and cite Warren Buffet or Peter Lynch as living examples that investing is better than trading. What they do not tell you is that most of the investors lose money, let alone achieving anything remotely like 1/millionth of what Warren Buffet or Peter Lynch has achieved so far. I still remember that Benjamin Graham, teacher of Warren Buffet, said in his famous book Security Analysis “You are better off to buy a well diversified mutual fund in the long run than pick individual stocks on your own. If you are determined to do it yourself, read on.”

 

From my experience, trading is more suited than investing for average people like you and me. All the people I know, relatives, friends and next door neighbors who are/were investors suffered huge losses in 2008. The problem is that they did not have huge gains during the bull run from 2003 to early 2007 to offset those big losses. Cut the losers and let the winners run. You might have heard of this phrase from time to time. It sounds simple. Nevertheless, very few people can follow that idiom. Most investors do exactly the opposite thing, which is cut the winners and let the losers run. When he has a winner after a number of losses, he would ask himself 500 times a day if that winner would reverse. The more he asks himself, the more worried he is. He ends up prematurely exiting his otherwise a very profitable position. However, when he has a loser, every time that loser bounces back a little bit(sucker rally caused by shorts covering), he sees a light at the end of the tunnel. Yet the position edges even lower. He keeps asking himself “How is it possible? How is it possible since this stock has such a low PE ? Why? Why? ” The position continues to edge lower while he is still pondering why his investments are rotting. I have seen people hold onto gigantic losers that are over 50% under the water. 50% is an understatement in 2008. Before an average Joe like you and me know what went wrong with the company, the stock has been already crushed unrecognizable.

 

One reason that an investor can not cut losers is that he has a very strong conviction when he decides to buy a stock after spending so much time trying to understate the fundamentals of a company. In other words, he is very biased by the time he finishes studying the fundamentals of a company. If that stock goes against him, he will always fool him into something like “I am a long term investor and this company’s fundamentals are sound.” Before he realizes it, he has a pet. Here are a few classic losers in 2008. They all have sound fundamentals. But…

Click on the thumbnails to have a better view of these losers

MGM(MGM MIRAGE)

Drys(DryShips)

RIMM (Research In Motion Limited)

SIGM( Sigma Designs, Inc)

 

 

A stock moves because of the underlying psychology of many participating traders/investors. It reflects the mental states of all these participants. Technical analysis works like a heart rate monitor that you can use to see what others are thinking and then you make a trading decision based on what you can deduce from the readings. If you are a pure technician, you spend no time reading anything about the fundamentals of that stock. The stock is just an electronic symbol that may show you x,y,z symptoms of going lower/higher. You calculate/guesstimate/deduce the probability of the stock moving in your predicated direction. If your answer is 51%, you open a position.

 

 As we can see, one of the biggest mistakes an investor makes is keeping a pet. With a seasoned technician, it can not possibly happen since he might not even know what this company does. It is just a symbol to him. He can long a stock as easily as short the same stock. He uses solid risk management to avoid big losses, which is cutting the losers. There are good, bad and ugly technicians.

  • Good technicians follow the idiom, cut the losers and let the winners run.

  • Ugly technicians cut the winners as fast as the losers. These traders will always be around though. But they are not able to make consistent profits.

  • Bad technicians slip into the investor mode, whom Mr. Market will send them packing as quickly as they entered the market.

 

When Dick Fuld, the CEO of now bankrupted investment bank, Lehman Brothers , testified on Capital Hill, he said “We acted like investors. We did not cut our losers quickly enough to avoid the steep losses.”  If you would like to invest in the stock market, buy a mutual fund or an index fund.  Most people simply can not beat those professional fund managers.  Most fund managers have a bunch of highly educated people working for them and they spend more than 8 hours a day researching stocks.  A lot people who I met actually believe they can beat those fund managers consistently even if they only spend 1 or 2 hours a day at most on researching stocks.

 

Of course, this is a perennial debate between investors and technicans. Choose one suitable for yourself. Happy Trading/Investing.

 


Extremely hard work and a few solid trading books are what you need to become a successful trader. There is no shortcut! By the way, you can always check out my portfolio, in which I post my trades real time.


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Most Commented Posts


  • Probir
    Here's a video you might want to add to your website. I laughed quite a bit, it's pretty well done. It's timely as there is a fed meeting tuesday and wednesday this week.

    enjoy :>

    http://ca.youtube.com/watch?v=3u2qRXb4xCU
  • thanks for that dual monitor set-up post.
  • good article. I agree. There is something very wrong with the buy and hold strategy of equites for most casual investors. All of the investing bs the industry tells people is based on an amazing, rare return that stocks had in this country over the last 100 years. its not necessarily going to be the same over the next 20-30 of course.

    For trading I don't think you can bash fundamentals that hard though. I think the best traders use fundamentals combined with technicals. Fundamentals to determine the direction and technicals to trade the trend. I think it's a powerful combination.
  • Paul-e-wog
    Semantics:

    You folks who are getting caught up on one detail that was mentioned and might be a misquote as it is from another source or somehow otherwise slightly off... well you should likely avoid investing and trading as your negative attitudes will sink you, if not now then eventually.

    I have invested for many years (decades) and also actively traded on the margin that I had as a result of those longer term investments. It is a lot of work to try be good at both but it has made me independently wealthy and has funded my getting into real estate too.

    If you don't like what this person has put out then just buzz off. I think that "trader mom" seems to be giving fairly good advice to novices and she should be commended for that.

    -Paul

    p.s. I just came across this site today so I know nothing of trader mom other than what I've found here.

    p.p.s. re-reading texts over and over again is a normal activity and is usually required for most. Pseudo trade with "paper money" before you use the real stuff, when delving into any new aspect of trading, and you'll save yourself some learning expenses.
  • bobbly
    I've read the Intelligent Investor recently. Graham does indeed recommend mutual funds for most small, defensive investors who are unable to spend the time and effort required to pick their own stocks. For the more adventurous investor, after attempting to put them off and advise them to play safe, he then goes on to provide advise on self-selection.

    Essentially, he is warning off the uninitiated from losing money through inexperience. I think if you read between the lines, he is saying that is is possible to do vastly better through self-selection than mutual funds, but that it is not the path for the beginner to follow.

    Intelligent Investor is a book densely packed with advice, and requires an Intelligent Reader to really gets to grip with it. I'm on my second time through it now, and I think I will need to read it at least three or four times and having a trial run of putting its advice into practice before I feel ready to self-select. In the mean time, I'll probably put some money into a well managed value fund.
  • traderMom
    You are right Sam. I borrowed a copy and read it again. I did not see it there. it is in his "Security Analysis"
  • sam
    first index fund: 1975
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Index_fund

    intelligent investor out in 1973
    perhaps one of the prefaces to a newer edition talked about index funds, but graham did not
  • sam
    wrong about intelligent investor.

    there were no index funds when it was written.
  • traderMom
    CashFlowInvestor, It is somewhere in that book. I also believe that he mentioned this in his classic "Security Analysis" I gave away both of them. It is not because I think he is wrong. I just believe that trading is more suited for small players.

    http://www.amazon.com/Security-Analysis-Classic...
  • CashFlowInvestor
    I read the intelligent investor. I don't remember anywhere in that book where he recommended an index fund over an individual stock. I couldn't get past this initial statement in your article. Therefore I deem the rest of your statement, although I didn't read the rest, full of B.S.
  • traderMom
    Charts can tell you what other people think a particular stock is worth at the current moment. Your thinking is exactly like Benjamin Graham, which works only on paper for most investors. Ben said himself if you would like to invest, buy a well diversified index fund. In a market like this in 2008, there is no such a thing as fundamentals. 99% of the stocks have gone down 100+%. Averaging down is the worst enemy of investing/trading.
  • Fliujniligui
    Well I can make some critics, Long term investor who lost money on a position has to reassess the position's fundamentals and then decide to either run out or buy more on further weakness. Anyone not commited to reassess and buy on weakness when fundamentals are sound and valuations are good (INTC, NVDA, DB, ING and GE are examples) should never engage in stock market and especially in buy and hold moves. On the other side, the real long term investor will be able to buy a small position at a reasonable price (As an example, 40$ for RIMM now is not even a reasonable price compared to other high tech companies) then wait for the market panic and hedge fund and margin calls induced forced vomiting to add progressively and more massively to the same position if judged excessively depressed. Then that long term investor will wait 5 years during which he will add to the position on weakness along with some other similar depressed fundamentally sound positions to diversify and get a real nice return with a crazy high margin of safety.

    I am not sure people should rely on technical factor only, stocks are indeed piece of a business and charts do not tell anything about the value of the business. Trading hockey cards should not be similar to investing!
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